Love how you explained that! I studied film, and it's sometimes really hard (as in right) to get that film out of my head. Especially when everyone tells you that's a good thing. It took me a while to understand the difference between watching a movie and writing prose, but the way you describe the moment the narrative stops really helped. Makes perfect sense! Thank you!
@Renee Fountain I was in the middle of revising a story when your article got published. I usually add descriptions to my stories as part of my revisions because my first drafts have none. And then I end up with too much description. It's hard to decide what to leave and what to keep. Your article helped me with that. Thank you.
Very good advice, and my writing group will be discussing this article next Wednesday as a lesson. Scene setting is a pet peeve, because I want to see the location, not talking heads, and I'm guilty of occasionally overdoing the setting description. I understand it needs to be a balance, enough to let the reader see, but not overwhelming. How the characters interact with the setting looks like a good guideline. A balanced scene description does a lot with establishing mood and providing that Third Thing to make dialog scenes come alive.
Chekhov's gun is what we call plant and return, where something gets planted in a scene, and we return to it later in the story. It's essential to mystery stories, clues, and very useful overall. The tough part can be investing the right amount of words and attention to things like that Egyptian relic, and red herrings without leaving the reader feeling cheated. Filtering through a character's POV helps. Readers are less likely to feel cheated if the protagonist got fooled as well.
I read years ago to make the setting interactive. Even if characters don’t touch something, providing their perspective on it makes the setting more engaging. I haven’t really worked with setting as set up for plot elements yet but I appreciate the context you bring to it.
Personally, I skim extensive scene description so I hope they’re not using your advice on setting up elements for later in the story because then I’m missing out 😂
Annie, depending on how it’s used, character perspective on something in the room, can often tell us something about the character, so that absolutely works.
Exactly, Scott. We'd just take in the clutter as the camera panned the room. However, if the camera zoomed in on the Sphinx paperweight and it winked -- we'd know something was coming.
You know way more than I about all of this, but I’m wondering something. I’ve just kind of gotten into reading fiction after never really being able to. And one of the things I seem to like is when the author really sets the scene ….vivid details about a person or place.
So, firstly, that kind of goes against this advice a little bit - maybe? Like, no, I don’t really need to know all of this stuff….but it is helping me get into the environment of the book.
And secondly, when writing like this I’m thinking it may be difficult to make a particular plot point stand out. I guess you’d have to find another way to do it?
Henny, I think it depends on what they're describing and if it's interesting, then great. Most of the time when you have a traditionally published novel most of the extraneous information is usually filtered out. So what you're left with is most likely truly setting a scene and/or providing information that is productive. Again, ususally.
Unless you read older books or authors like Anne Rice -- she would describe a room within an inch of its life, all the way down to the yellow polka-dot curtains, just because.
What I see is a lot of unnecessary information that draws my attention and takes up a lot of space - for no real productive reason. I'll literally get the full wardrobe run down, hair color, eye color and facial ticks of every character upon introduction, including the pizza delivery person, because it's thought that's the way it's done. Yes, sometimes it's good to know what a person looks like - often times something about their wardrobe or appearance will be the catalyst for someting later, even if it's a small thing.
The article isn't saying don't describe stuff - or tell me what the room is like just to set the scene -- but that when you do, describing the flowers on the wallpaper doesn't usually factor in...unless those flowers factor in later. For example - someone is lost in the desert. They stumbled from dehydration and heat exhaustion, damaging a cactus arm. Later when the police arrive, they see the damaged cactus arm and use it to determine which way the person went.
Sometimes there's a better way to desribe things that have more impact. Like instead of describing every detail of a house that is decrepit and falling apart, saying it would be the perfect location for the next haunted house horror movie or Addams Family vacation home, gives me a visual that lots of words may not.
I really like how you’ve presented this. I hear “show, don’t tell” so much and honestly that is really hard for me. Because I don’t see the world in that traditional sense, which makes it hard to write that way.
But I do see the world in the “Adamms Family” way you describe.
Lovely recommendations.
Love how you explained that! I studied film, and it's sometimes really hard (as in right) to get that film out of my head. Especially when everyone tells you that's a good thing. It took me a while to understand the difference between watching a movie and writing prose, but the way you describe the moment the narrative stops really helped. Makes perfect sense! Thank you!
That’s so great to hear, Tini. I’m so glad it gave you a new perspective.
@Renee Fountain I was in the middle of revising a story when your article got published. I usually add descriptions to my stories as part of my revisions because my first drafts have none. And then I end up with too much description. It's hard to decide what to leave and what to keep. Your article helped me with that. Thank you.
That’s awesome. Thank you for telling me, Nikita. 🤗
Very good advice, and my writing group will be discussing this article next Wednesday as a lesson. Scene setting is a pet peeve, because I want to see the location, not talking heads, and I'm guilty of occasionally overdoing the setting description. I understand it needs to be a balance, enough to let the reader see, but not overwhelming. How the characters interact with the setting looks like a good guideline. A balanced scene description does a lot with establishing mood and providing that Third Thing to make dialog scenes come alive.
Chekhov's gun is what we call plant and return, where something gets planted in a scene, and we return to it later in the story. It's essential to mystery stories, clues, and very useful overall. The tough part can be investing the right amount of words and attention to things like that Egyptian relic, and red herrings without leaving the reader feeling cheated. Filtering through a character's POV helps. Readers are less likely to feel cheated if the protagonist got fooled as well.
Some very good points, Tim. Tell your writing group I said hi.
Great message 👍
Excellent. There's a reason for everything. Even every word
I read years ago to make the setting interactive. Even if characters don’t touch something, providing their perspective on it makes the setting more engaging. I haven’t really worked with setting as set up for plot elements yet but I appreciate the context you bring to it.
Personally, I skim extensive scene description so I hope they’re not using your advice on setting up elements for later in the story because then I’m missing out 😂
Annie, depending on how it’s used, character perspective on something in the room, can often tell us something about the character, so that absolutely works.
This was a helpful article.
In a movie you wouldn't spend five minutes staring at the desk, unless there was a reason.
Exactly, Scott. We'd just take in the clutter as the camera panned the room. However, if the camera zoomed in on the Sphinx paperweight and it winked -- we'd know something was coming.
You know way more than I about all of this, but I’m wondering something. I’ve just kind of gotten into reading fiction after never really being able to. And one of the things I seem to like is when the author really sets the scene ….vivid details about a person or place.
So, firstly, that kind of goes against this advice a little bit - maybe? Like, no, I don’t really need to know all of this stuff….but it is helping me get into the environment of the book.
And secondly, when writing like this I’m thinking it may be difficult to make a particular plot point stand out. I guess you’d have to find another way to do it?
Henny, I think it depends on what they're describing and if it's interesting, then great. Most of the time when you have a traditionally published novel most of the extraneous information is usually filtered out. So what you're left with is most likely truly setting a scene and/or providing information that is productive. Again, ususally.
Unless you read older books or authors like Anne Rice -- she would describe a room within an inch of its life, all the way down to the yellow polka-dot curtains, just because.
What I see is a lot of unnecessary information that draws my attention and takes up a lot of space - for no real productive reason. I'll literally get the full wardrobe run down, hair color, eye color and facial ticks of every character upon introduction, including the pizza delivery person, because it's thought that's the way it's done. Yes, sometimes it's good to know what a person looks like - often times something about their wardrobe or appearance will be the catalyst for someting later, even if it's a small thing.
The article isn't saying don't describe stuff - or tell me what the room is like just to set the scene -- but that when you do, describing the flowers on the wallpaper doesn't usually factor in...unless those flowers factor in later. For example - someone is lost in the desert. They stumbled from dehydration and heat exhaustion, damaging a cactus arm. Later when the police arrive, they see the damaged cactus arm and use it to determine which way the person went.
Sometimes there's a better way to desribe things that have more impact. Like instead of describing every detail of a house that is decrepit and falling apart, saying it would be the perfect location for the next haunted house horror movie or Addams Family vacation home, gives me a visual that lots of words may not.
I really like how you’ve presented this. I hear “show, don’t tell” so much and honestly that is really hard for me. Because I don’t see the world in that traditional sense, which makes it hard to write that way.
But I do see the world in the “Adamms Family” way you describe.
Anyway, thanks for all of this!
You're welcome.