I was so looking forward to reading this because I wanted to test it against my current first ten pages. I really struggled with the info dumping my first time around (and the amount of rejections I got proved it lol).
But I have done a ton of work and I really believe my first ten pages have a lot of the good elements you listed while avoiding many of the items you mentioned that can lead to a rejection. So I’m very excited when I finish this current draft of my manuscript. I think I might actually get some full requests!
Thanks as always for providing your insight, Renee!
Thank you for sharing these tips. I laughed at myself, for I indeed did open my creative nonfiction with the protagonist looking in the mirror. 🤦♀️However, I do it specifically to introduce the conflict right away--that she does not see who she thinks she is supposed to see. I am wondering if that still might be a cliche? 🤔
Shell, that's a good point. If she's looking in the mirror saying, "I see mousy brown hair and realize this is not my reflection..." it could be interesting. Or if the character is walking by a mirror and catches the reflection -- the cliche is usually someone brushing their teeth and looking in the mirror, getting ready for something and looking in the mirror or just simply looking in the mirror to dissect their appearance... if you can put a new spin and surprise the reader, then bonus.
"within the first five to 10 pages" I can tell in the first page. But then I'm a scoundrel : ) All kidding aside Renee this is absolutely splendid advice. I'm jealous, a couple of these I thought were my own private ace cards... Like throwing in a joke, or at least an absurdity as fast as possible.
I can see it within the first page too, if it’s there. However, I like to ensure I’ve read enough to make a more informed decision.
For those who say, “But it really takes off on page 50”… have answered their own question on why people stopped reading. That’s often the first clue to writers on moving up the action and starting in a different place.
Thank you so much, Renee! This is amazing advice...and now I'm off to review my first 10 pages and see where I'm making these mistakes both in the novel I'm pitching and my current WIP.
Wow. I was nodding and grinning as I read this. Just this past week I listened to a webinar Jane Friedman and Tiffany Yates Martin hosted about the first 30 pages and I can’t believe how much of this is the EXACT same as what they said. To get that kind of consensus (in a week) on advice this good is invaluable. I’m printing this out and using it as a revision checklist on what to avoid. Thank you Renee 🙏
Matt, while story is subjective in terms of someone’s taste in reading, writing that works is objective. So you should be getting the same main points. Ways of teaching or other nuances may differ, but the point is the same.
What you said goes back to a previous article I did about comps. People who have been in publishing awhile, like myself, Jane Friedman and Tiffany Yates Martin will usually agree on the big picture items. It comes down to nuance.
For instance Jane will say personalize the letter, and I say I don’t need it to be. Jane doesn’t like the themes to be pointed out. I think it’s fine. But we both say the same thing in what a query letter needs to be. So stick with reputable people for your info and determine what works for you in terms of style.
I focus on the first 5-10 pages because I won’t usually get past those to page 30.
High value here. Appreciate this very much. First 5-10 is fair, lot to sift through. And your recent article on comps was great. I wouldn’t have guessed referencing other mediums, ie film TV would’ve been in bounds but love that’s the case. I’m all in on spending more time on my first 5-10 pages than trying to thread the needle with comps.
As a person who writes comedy, humor, and satire and you think you literary types have problems getting published try writing anything humorous. Americans are losing their sense of humor---this is the most alarming development. plus there are way too many stories with these themes----dead babies, dysfuntional people and families. There is no joy in writing.
Michael, I love humor and seek it out, but you're right in a lot of ways. People are losing their sense of humor and seem more interested in finding things to be offended about -- even if it's a stretch.
In writing, humor seems to be taking a back seat to post-apocalyptic doom and climate change fiascos. I don't represent it because I prefer my fiction to be different from every day life. I'm not sure why people are writing so much doom and gloom. Maybe we need to stop "writing what we know" and write the change we want to see. Bring the joy back to writing and life in general.
Related, if either of you have any fave humor novels—or even novels of another genre that lean on comedy—please share. Especially contemporary ones. :)
So what's wrong with humor that kills a bunch of people?!!! I was trying to sell a cli fi novel titled: Weather Wars. I could not get past the Q letter with agents who didn't want to represent "something like that." I had to change the title of the book and slant it more quirky. Part of the problem is PC. My best example of that and humor is try to Youtube the scene from The Producers of Mel Brooks titled: Spring Time for Hitler. It may or may not be available because----let me cast stones---a humor illiterates do not understand satire.
I was so looking forward to reading this because I wanted to test it against my current first ten pages. I really struggled with the info dumping my first time around (and the amount of rejections I got proved it lol).
But I have done a ton of work and I really believe my first ten pages have a lot of the good elements you listed while avoiding many of the items you mentioned that can lead to a rejection. So I’m very excited when I finish this current draft of my manuscript. I think I might actually get some full requests!
Thanks as always for providing your insight, Renee!
Awesome, Colin. Fingers crossed. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thank you for sharing these tips. I laughed at myself, for I indeed did open my creative nonfiction with the protagonist looking in the mirror. 🤦♀️However, I do it specifically to introduce the conflict right away--that she does not see who she thinks she is supposed to see. I am wondering if that still might be a cliche? 🤔
Shell, that's a good point. If she's looking in the mirror saying, "I see mousy brown hair and realize this is not my reflection..." it could be interesting. Or if the character is walking by a mirror and catches the reflection -- the cliche is usually someone brushing their teeth and looking in the mirror, getting ready for something and looking in the mirror or just simply looking in the mirror to dissect their appearance... if you can put a new spin and surprise the reader, then bonus.
It’s hilarious that you mention “mousy brown hair”!! That’s how I always described myself. 😆
"within the first five to 10 pages" I can tell in the first page. But then I'm a scoundrel : ) All kidding aside Renee this is absolutely splendid advice. I'm jealous, a couple of these I thought were my own private ace cards... Like throwing in a joke, or at least an absurdity as fast as possible.
I can see it within the first page too, if it’s there. However, I like to ensure I’ve read enough to make a more informed decision.
For those who say, “But it really takes off on page 50”… have answered their own question on why people stopped reading. That’s often the first clue to writers on moving up the action and starting in a different place.
This is wise
Thank you so much, Renee! This is amazing advice...and now I'm off to review my first 10 pages and see where I'm making these mistakes both in the novel I'm pitching and my current WIP.
I've saved this for future reference.
Treasure trove of information and advice here!
Thank you, Maryann
Great advice! You capture the problems I see all the time.
Thanks, Karin.
Great advice. I learned a lot here.
This is such timely advice for me, since I'm now working on the first scene of my manuscript. You've done it again Renee!
Good luck, Noor! Good luck with the scene.
Wow. I was nodding and grinning as I read this. Just this past week I listened to a webinar Jane Friedman and Tiffany Yates Martin hosted about the first 30 pages and I can’t believe how much of this is the EXACT same as what they said. To get that kind of consensus (in a week) on advice this good is invaluable. I’m printing this out and using it as a revision checklist on what to avoid. Thank you Renee 🙏
Matt, while story is subjective in terms of someone’s taste in reading, writing that works is objective. So you should be getting the same main points. Ways of teaching or other nuances may differ, but the point is the same.
What you said goes back to a previous article I did about comps. People who have been in publishing awhile, like myself, Jane Friedman and Tiffany Yates Martin will usually agree on the big picture items. It comes down to nuance.
For instance Jane will say personalize the letter, and I say I don’t need it to be. Jane doesn’t like the themes to be pointed out. I think it’s fine. But we both say the same thing in what a query letter needs to be. So stick with reputable people for your info and determine what works for you in terms of style.
I focus on the first 5-10 pages because I won’t usually get past those to page 30.
High value here. Appreciate this very much. First 5-10 is fair, lot to sift through. And your recent article on comps was great. I wouldn’t have guessed referencing other mediums, ie film TV would’ve been in bounds but love that’s the case. I’m all in on spending more time on my first 5-10 pages than trying to thread the needle with comps.
Not currently writing a book, but found this really insightful! Thanks for connecting, Renee - glad we crossed paths :)
Ditto 😊
Renee, love this. Writers could also use some of this advice for writing personal essays on Substack. Thank you!
Absolutely, Debbie.
As a person who writes comedy, humor, and satire and you think you literary types have problems getting published try writing anything humorous. Americans are losing their sense of humor---this is the most alarming development. plus there are way too many stories with these themes----dead babies, dysfuntional people and families. There is no joy in writing.
Michael, I love humor and seek it out, but you're right in a lot of ways. People are losing their sense of humor and seem more interested in finding things to be offended about -- even if it's a stretch.
In writing, humor seems to be taking a back seat to post-apocalyptic doom and climate change fiascos. I don't represent it because I prefer my fiction to be different from every day life. I'm not sure why people are writing so much doom and gloom. Maybe we need to stop "writing what we know" and write the change we want to see. Bring the joy back to writing and life in general.
Related, if either of you have any fave humor novels—or even novels of another genre that lean on comedy—please share. Especially contemporary ones. :)
So what's wrong with humor that kills a bunch of people?!!! I was trying to sell a cli fi novel titled: Weather Wars. I could not get past the Q letter with agents who didn't want to represent "something like that." I had to change the title of the book and slant it more quirky. Part of the problem is PC. My best example of that and humor is try to Youtube the scene from The Producers of Mel Brooks titled: Spring Time for Hitler. It may or may not be available because----let me cast stones---a humor illiterates do not understand satire.