Thank you Renee. This is very timely as I’m considering whether to attend the Surrey conference again. I also meant to ask you the other day about the value of one on one pitches with agents at conferences. Perhaps that could be a topic to explore in more details at some point?
Amadine, I remember you mentioning in the webinar. I hope it helped you to decide. I have a side note in the article that I think the 1:1 pitches (IMO) are valuable. For myself, I know I try to provide as much value as I can when I do them -- including inviting the writer to follow up with any questions while they're implementing my notes.
I'm happy to answer any specific questions about it you may have.
Yes, your side note was helpful, thank you! I was thinking you expending on the topic in another post could be an idea :)
I think the main question most querying writers have about in person pitches is regarding the higher request rate. Agents request fulls much more in these sessions - is it because the quality of submissions at conferences is better than the slush pile, or because it's harder to say no in person (which would be completely understandable, of course)?
I had a full request after my first 1:1 pitch, then was ghosted. I used another session to brainstorm my query letter and story with the agent rather than pitching, and that was super helpful, and ended up with the agent asking to see my work when ready anyway. So it's been a mixed bag so far for me. But every agent (and writer, for that matter) is different, of course.
I agree many (mostly newer) agents probably ask for fulls because it’s harder to turn people down in person. Seasoned agents, have no trouble doing it. Sometimes I’m on the fence about something and I’ll say, it’s a long shot but send me X # pages.
Otherwise, I always ask for fulls because if I want to keep reading, I need to do it right then or another project takes its place while I wait for the new pages.
I read in the order people send them. So time to respond varies—though I always say “got it”… which I know is an issue a lot of writers face wondering if their submission ever made it in the first place. I also make it a point to respond if it’s a pass and if possible give some actionable feedback as to why.
Not responding at all to one you’ve specifically asked for, isn’t nice. I’m sorry you were ghosted in the past. I have to hope they had a good reason.
This was super helpful, Renee! It looks like there is a conference in Charlotte in March so I’m definitely going to check it out and go through your checklists to see if it’s a fit 😊
About ten years ago some agents would accept money for considering a manuscript. I don't see this at all anymore. Why not, I wonder? Aren't they doing the same thing at conferences?
Richard, all conferences are different. Agents either volunteer, get an honorarium for their time, or just have their travel expenses paid (capped of course). Sometimes the agent gets a small percentage of the 1:1 critiques they do at a show, and sometimes they don't.
With all the work agents do that we do not get paid for in searching for books to represent, through these events, on line pitches, and our in-box. Then reading books to find out they're not right, to finding ones that are, and then submitting those to multiple editors and imprints that may never sell - but only if the author agrees they want to come with us; if not then that's time we'll never recoup on.
I can't imagine people feel we should put in two or three days of time (fully scheduled, usually no downtime), do a bunch of panels, teach classes, provide lots of info, attend networking events to answer many more questions, do group pitching where we can see as many as 100 people then look at those submissions -- again, time we are not paid for... but we shouldn't get what often amounts to $15-$30 per 1:1 critique where we have to read 10-20 pages and provide actionablle notes and feedback-- especailly if no honorarium is being paid.
Agree or not charging a reading fee as an agent is considered in the industry to be unethical. They often charge higher amounts and I've not seen one that is truly an agent -- not that I'm looking very hard. If for the money they charge they're going to guarantee a read of 10-20 pages and provide actionable notes and feedback -- then I'm going to say they should call themselves an editor. Otherwise it feels like a pay to play.
Thank you Renee. I should have made it clear I have nothing against paying an agent. Their expertise is specific, complex, and time-consuming. I pay an accountant or lawyer to assess my situation, whether they can help me or not. The same should apply to an agent. Somehow this was lost, and now no one’s happy
My response wasn't an angry one, Richard, no worries. I'm sure others might have the same question. Unfortunately, agents aren't in the same boat as lawyers. We only get paid if your book sells. That's why we are so picky.
I'm willing to bet if there was a fee for submission -- like there is for online pitching or in person events, it would cut way down on those writers taking a shot gun approach with work that isn't ready to query. Of course it would also create a financial issue for those doing the right thing.
Working for free is also why you see agents doing paid workshops and courses. It's a great way to teach writers to hone their craft and create solid work BEFORE submitting to any agent.
A) The Association believes that the practice of literary agents charging clients or potential clients for reading and evaluating literary works (including query letters, outlines, proposals, and partial or complete manuscripts) is subject to serious abuse that reflects adversely on our profession.
Members may not charge any reading fees for evaluating work for possible representation. However, members may provide editorial services in exchange for a fee to authors who are not clients, provided members adhere to the following provisions...
Thank you Renee. This is very timely as I’m considering whether to attend the Surrey conference again. I also meant to ask you the other day about the value of one on one pitches with agents at conferences. Perhaps that could be a topic to explore in more details at some point?
Amadine, I remember you mentioning in the webinar. I hope it helped you to decide. I have a side note in the article that I think the 1:1 pitches (IMO) are valuable. For myself, I know I try to provide as much value as I can when I do them -- including inviting the writer to follow up with any questions while they're implementing my notes.
I'm happy to answer any specific questions about it you may have.
Yes, your side note was helpful, thank you! I was thinking you expending on the topic in another post could be an idea :)
I think the main question most querying writers have about in person pitches is regarding the higher request rate. Agents request fulls much more in these sessions - is it because the quality of submissions at conferences is better than the slush pile, or because it's harder to say no in person (which would be completely understandable, of course)?
I had a full request after my first 1:1 pitch, then was ghosted. I used another session to brainstorm my query letter and story with the agent rather than pitching, and that was super helpful, and ended up with the agent asking to see my work when ready anyway. So it's been a mixed bag so far for me. But every agent (and writer, for that matter) is different, of course.
I agree many (mostly newer) agents probably ask for fulls because it’s harder to turn people down in person. Seasoned agents, have no trouble doing it. Sometimes I’m on the fence about something and I’ll say, it’s a long shot but send me X # pages.
Otherwise, I always ask for fulls because if I want to keep reading, I need to do it right then or another project takes its place while I wait for the new pages.
I read in the order people send them. So time to respond varies—though I always say “got it”… which I know is an issue a lot of writers face wondering if their submission ever made it in the first place. I also make it a point to respond if it’s a pass and if possible give some actionable feedback as to why.
Not responding at all to one you’ve specifically asked for, isn’t nice. I’m sorry you were ghosted in the past. I have to hope they had a good reason.
I also remembered why I knew your name. You were one of my MA volunteers :)
This was super helpful, Renee! It looks like there is a conference in Charlotte in March so I’m definitely going to check it out and go through your checklists to see if it’s a fit 😊
Sounds good, Colin ☺️
About ten years ago some agents would accept money for considering a manuscript. I don't see this at all anymore. Why not, I wonder? Aren't they doing the same thing at conferences?
Richard, all conferences are different. Agents either volunteer, get an honorarium for their time, or just have their travel expenses paid (capped of course). Sometimes the agent gets a small percentage of the 1:1 critiques they do at a show, and sometimes they don't.
With all the work agents do that we do not get paid for in searching for books to represent, through these events, on line pitches, and our in-box. Then reading books to find out they're not right, to finding ones that are, and then submitting those to multiple editors and imprints that may never sell - but only if the author agrees they want to come with us; if not then that's time we'll never recoup on.
I can't imagine people feel we should put in two or three days of time (fully scheduled, usually no downtime), do a bunch of panels, teach classes, provide lots of info, attend networking events to answer many more questions, do group pitching where we can see as many as 100 people then look at those submissions -- again, time we are not paid for... but we shouldn't get what often amounts to $15-$30 per 1:1 critique where we have to read 10-20 pages and provide actionablle notes and feedback-- especailly if no honorarium is being paid.
Agree or not charging a reading fee as an agent is considered in the industry to be unethical. They often charge higher amounts and I've not seen one that is truly an agent -- not that I'm looking very hard. If for the money they charge they're going to guarantee a read of 10-20 pages and provide actionable notes and feedback -- then I'm going to say they should call themselves an editor. Otherwise it feels like a pay to play.
Thank you Renee. I should have made it clear I have nothing against paying an agent. Their expertise is specific, complex, and time-consuming. I pay an accountant or lawyer to assess my situation, whether they can help me or not. The same should apply to an agent. Somehow this was lost, and now no one’s happy
My response wasn't an angry one, Richard, no worries. I'm sure others might have the same question. Unfortunately, agents aren't in the same boat as lawyers. We only get paid if your book sells. That's why we are so picky.
I'm willing to bet if there was a fee for submission -- like there is for online pitching or in person events, it would cut way down on those writers taking a shot gun approach with work that isn't ready to query. Of course it would also create a financial issue for those doing the right thing.
Working for free is also why you see agents doing paid workshops and courses. It's a great way to teach writers to hone their craft and create solid work BEFORE submitting to any agent.
This is what I found here https://aalitagents.org/canon-of-ethics/ Agents can indeed charge. I just can't find anyone who will do it.
Read that again:
A) The Association believes that the practice of literary agents charging clients or potential clients for reading and evaluating literary works (including query letters, outlines, proposals, and partial or complete manuscripts) is subject to serious abuse that reflects adversely on our profession.
Members may not charge any reading fees for evaluating work for possible representation. However, members may provide editorial services in exchange for a fee to authors who are not clients, provided members adhere to the following provisions...
Thanks!